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Turning down drink without causing loss of face?
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Friday -

At various dinner parties, over the course of my recent trip to China, I was offered wine. As a
nephalist, I turned them down, toasting with peach juice. It occurred to me at the time that it
was possible I was causing them offense, but no one said anything. This notion was further
reinforced in a Beijing film I watched only today, in which a host became very upset at their
guest's refusal, exclaiming that his face had "fallen to the floor." There were other native
teetotalers present at some of the parties I attended, but they were close friends of the host.
How can I turn down drink without causing loss of face to the host?



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Rincewind -

I don't have an answer to this but I have a related question. How do you get the drink changed to
something more palatable. I have no problem with baijiu or wine or almost any other drink, but I
can't stand beer. Everything else is OK; however, beer is usually bought for you without even
asking for it. How do you change the drink without upsetting the host?










semantic nuance -

Friday,

When people cannot take truth nicely, how about telling them a white lie? You can tell them that
you are allergical to alcohol, which will make you itchy all over and feel sick. You may ask them
if you can drink some other soft drinks instead?

Hope it helps!










simonlaing -

Hi Friday,

This is a good question which many people may have different takes on. First it helps if you are
female in refusing alcohol as there are double standards.

Second drinking with the Boss can help. If you keep up with them moderately you will stay in their
good graces. When I asked my Masters business students who were about to do a year's Study in an
Italian MNE what I should work on for doing CHinese business they said learn to drink, and to
drink a lot. I have had friend who worked for government agencies and schools who have recieved
bonuses and raises for drinking their bosses literally under the table.

1 Tactics should be split into 2 parts one if you don't want to drink at all. (This is highly
unlikely and somewhat frowned upon)

2. Tactics for minimizing the amount that you drink.

For 1, you can claim that you are allergic to alochol. This works with vegetarians and meat most
of the time.
You can feign that you have a cold and have been taking some strong medicine and can't have the
drug interaction.
You can try and claim that your company does not allow you accept alcoholic gifts, though food is
ok. Or has some other policy on drinking

2. Minimizing drinking.
The best way is to team up with someone and constantly have group toasts . If you stand up and
point at someone they have to toast with you. Don't let them get you one person with people around
the table toasting you.
You can pretend to drink and spill some or just wet your lips.
When they are not looking pour some into your side bowl. or plate if you can.
Refuse to drink bottoms up, that it is not the western way at the restaurant.
Try to be talking with someone all the time, if you're talking it is harder to ask you to drink.
Figure out who is out to get you, or who is the ring leader and drink them under the table first
then the others won't hassle you as much. .

If you're out to drink them under it is ok to go out to the bathroom and puke a bit to help you
continue drinking.
Try to drink only expensive Baijiu at least 150 RMB as the other stuff will get your sick.

These are just a few of the tactics, I am sure others can speak of more.
Some like baijiu shots are easier to pour into the bowl or plate with out too much notice.

At weddings it is traditional for the Groom and Bride to toast all the guests, (though it is
usually done table by table with 10-20 tables it is still a feat). There are also drinking
situations in the ceremony performance. The best man carries the fake "baijiu" so the pair can
last the evening. Even with this weaker baijiu I have seen many a tipsy/puking bride. So count
yourself lucky it isn't a wedding

Have fun,
Simon










johnd -

I don't think you should worry about causing offence. They might think you are a wet blanket, or
not want to go out with you again, but I don't think they will take real offence. Even though you
are a guest in another culture, you should still be true to yourself and explain your reasons.
Maybe they'll respect you in the morning when they think to themselves "wow, that guy managed to
resist us".

They will keep on pushing you to drink, and you just keep on refusing - it's all part of the game
and the banter. If you watch the other drinkers, most of the time they're arguing about who's to
drink what and how much. So you can try to stay jovial, and join their banter. Maybe you can
deflect them by suggesting a forfeit: "I'll eat one of these super-hot chillies for every glass
you drink". Then you can over-act your spicy pain and everyone will have a laugh together. Because
that's the point of the drinking: to have a laugh and break down the social barriers.

All this is theory though - I never managed to resit without being a boring sod!










mr.stinky -

just tell the truth; you don't drink. if they have a problem with that, too bad. i think the
'losing face' problem is an overblown western movie 'inscrutable oriental' stereotype, at
least in this case. anyone that takes such offense that they resort to bullying you (beyond
simple peer pressure; "c'mon have a drink") to force you to drink, is neither a friend nor
a good host, regardless of the culture.

anyways, to avoid 'misunderstandings,' tell your friends you don't drink when you accept
an invitation, and again when you meet before entering the bar/ktv/restaurant. if invited
to someone's home, quietly tell the host before any drinks are served.

of course, if you believe the situation demands you lie, you can say either your religeon
forbids alcohol, or you're taking medication that cannot mix with likker.

full disclosure: although not a heavy drinker, i've yet to decline a drink. however, it did
take some encouragement to suck the flaming bacardi through a straw.










gougou -



Quote:

you can say either your religeon forbids alcohol

That might or might not work. I was translating for a guy from Dubai once; being a Muslim, he
declined to drink any alcohol. When I told the Chinese that he couldn't drink alcohol because of
his religion, they served red wine and told him that it was just grape juice... Luckily, he was
suspicious enough to consult me first!










imron -



Quote:

anyone that takes such offense that they resort to bullying you (beyond
simple peer pressure; "c'mon have a drink") to force you to drink, is neither a friend nor
a good host

While by and large I agree with this statement, sometimes you might be having dinner with people
who are neither good friends, or good hosts, but at the same time you have to be there and lying,
getting angry or walking out isn't an option.

I don't really drink much, in fact mostly not really at all, and on several occasions my continued
refusal to drink, or refusal to drink more than a small amount (even when refusing in a nice way),
has made things very awkward and uncomfortable (not to mention the fact it's meant that I've then
had to listen to countless lectures about the importance of Chinese drinking culture and how I
should 入乡随俗).

Anyway, if you speak Chinese, these are phrases I've found to be useful when refusing alcohol:

我滴酒不沾 - I don't don't drink any alcohol (not even one drop).

我以茶（饮料）代酒 - I'll use tea (softdrink) in place of alcohol.

只要感情有，喝啥都是酒 As long as there is feeling (between us), it doesn't matter what
we drink, it's the same as if we were drinking alcohol.

These three phrases, which I'll typically use in the order listed above and in reponse to
increasingly strong requests to have something alcoholic to drink, are usually enough to get you
out of most drinking situations in a nice and friendly manner, while still showing "respect" to
the host.










Yang Rui -

Agree with most of what's being said here. I think it's much easier to refuse to drink outright
than to just drink in small amounts. For me, the best excuse is the "feigning illness" excuse. You
could say you have "wei4bing4" (stomach condition) and demonstrate this even further by avoiding
spicy food. It's a bit of a stock excuse though, and they may see through it. But I generally find
that a lot of Chinese people are very sensitive about their health (verging on the hypochondriac)
and so anything relating to health should be a good excuse.

There are some cases where people will just persist and persist in trying to get you to drink -
they push so much that they get themselves into situations where they can only lose face. I think
this says a lot about their character - I would never trust anyone who did this in any other area
of life. They care nothing for your comfort, but only their own standing. Stand up to them!

Most people are fine though. Once, I was on the verge of being totally wasted on baijiu, and
refused my host's offer of another glass and he said "Ok, I respect you. You know when to stop."
That can be the start of a good relationship










skylee -

I agree with #6.

As to saying "我滴酒不沾" to the host, even I, who never think forcing anyone to drink makes
sense, would find it offensive/impolite. The tone is very abrupt and sounds like 我義正詞嚴.
I think a softer "我(完全)不喝酒的" or "我是(完全)不能喝酒的" are more acceptable.












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