Study Chinese - 摇滚：rock or rock-and-roll? - Page 3 -

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摇滚：rock or rock-and-roll?
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0021com -

摇滚：rock or rock-and-roll?


you just say 摇滚rock
it is more easy
rock-and-roll is so long to express



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wushijiao -



Quote:

Is Elvis's music Rockabilly?

In part. But the Cat King was so much more.

By the way, below is a great NPR overview of Rockabilly, which I will take the liberty as
translating as 罗克阿比尔梨音乐。

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=15184887










Ari 桑 -

As for you guys talking about rock in china, theres plenty plenty plenty of great rock in china
right now. And I would say that where it may lack in quantity compared to japan, in by and large
definitely surpasses in quality. I have been to a decent number of shows in beijing, all of which
have had at least two or more great bands. The Modern Sky record label has lots of great stuff.
Most of china's rock that I listen to is more indie. As for punk and metal, I'm not sure how the
scene is. But there is definitely a good amount of artsy indie stuff thats just fantastic. Two of
my favorites are 周先生 and 木马。










madizi -



Quote:

The Chinese are used to listening to sugary pop music, which are similar to pre-1960 rock era
ballads in the West. It's too much of a leap to go from pop ballads to punk or death metal.

So, does that mean that wild 60s are coming to China? With sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll?












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Study Chinese - Which dialect is this? -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Which dialect is this?
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Myriam -





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muyongshi -

It's not a dialect, it's standard mandarin spoken with a very neutral accent. And the accent is
definitely not Shandong.

Why do you think it's a dialect?










gato -

She's talking about the song at the beginning. It's like 贤良 by 苏阳, probably Shaaxi dialect.
http://echannel.benq.com.cn/information/xianliang.mp3
贤良 by 苏阳










Littleweed -

I did a little research. It says it's North-West dialect. Ning2xia4 area.
Hope this helps you.










heartless -

The language the singer said before the song begins is mandarin with slight northern accent. The
song is definitely not in Dongbei dialect, but some mixture of North west accents, and the singer
used mainly dialect spoken in Ningxia province.










WangYuHong -

Darn my reading comprehension...
For a couple days, I thought the other messages in the discussion were saying the beginning song
in the initial video was that song posted later. Now I just re-read it and saw they say that it's
similar to that song... Oh well...

I asked my wife about the song in the initial video. It's called 好汉歌, by 刘欢。
好汉歌

She says it's from the TV Series taken from the famous novel "Outlaws of the Marsh" or 水浒传.
That song has a Shandong accent to it (although it's still sung in 普通话).


That second song that was linked, she said that one sounds more like a 陕西 accent (still
普通话 though).










fireball9261 -

It did sound a little like Shangdong, but I think the way it was sung was more like Qin Qiang
(Shanxi folk songs). And I checked the singer's home province, and he was from Ningxia 宁夏. It
is located at the China's north west side and close to Shanxi and Shaanxi. It was sung in Mandarin
with a mild Ningxia accent. I like his style, and I think I am going to get his CD's.












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Learning Mandarin - Henan Dengfeng Shaolin Epo Wushu College -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Henan Dengfeng Shaolin Epo Wushu College
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4Fisher4 -

I would like to go and learn Kung fu in China for a couple of years and was wondering if anyone
has gone to this school. If not I was wondering if anyone could point me in a good direction for a
kunf fu school that is cheap, somewhere around $12,000 for two year... at most! I was wondering
about training in the shaolin temple but was informed that it probably isn't the best way to
study... though I would really enjoy learning shaolin martial arts. If anyone could help me I
would be very appreciative. If you would like to check out the schools website it is
http://www.shaolinepo.com/en1/index.html thanks!



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gougou -

Make sure you are prepared for the real China...










zozzen -



Quote:

$12,000 for two year.

you mean US$120000 or RMB12000?

The monthly school fee there is RMB1000-RMB5000 which include all meals, accomodation and tuition
fee. If you need a private toilet and smaller class (1 mentor for around 5 students) , expect to
pay at least RMB3000 . Some famous schools like Epo charged more.

For a year long program, a big discount is offered but I haven't bargained for that. Though local
students pay RMB5000-15000 per year only, international students are usually charged more, because
of the cost for translation, smaller class and the FACT that they expect you are much richer. One
of my french schoolmate paid RMB12000 per year which is quite a good offer.

If you plan to stay there for a year, expect annual school fee not more than RMB15000. (you have
to make a hard bargain), and spare some pocket money to buy water and snacks, which cost
RMB100-1000 per month, depending on how you spend your leisure time.












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Chinese Studies - Which Chinese invention had the most impact? -

> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
Which Chinese invention had the most impact?
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View Poll Results: Which Chinese invention had the most profound impact on the modern world?
Paper 8 38.10%
Paper money/Credit cards 0 0%
Mariner's compass 0 0%
Gunpowder 5 23.81%
Printing press/moveable type 6 28.57%
Seismograph 0 0%
All of the above 2 9.52%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll



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bhchao -

Which Chinese invention do you think had the most profound impact on the development of the modern
world?

Some of the most important inventions were invented during Han dynasty, but were not "modernized"
into practical application until Tang and Song times. Gunpowder was invented during Han, began to
be utilized for military purposes during Tang, and reached a high point during Song in the form of
cannons and hand grenades.

The compass was invented for astronomical purposes during Han, and later used for seafaring
purposes during Song. The Arab world may have beaten the Song in creating the first mariner
compass. Later the compass spread to Europe and played a key role in discovering the New World.

Cai Lun invented the paper during the Han dynasty. Later, Chinese POWs from the Battle of Talas
taught the Arabs at Samarkand how to create paper. The Arab world spread this knowledge to Europe
via trade.

The world's first paper money was created during the Song dynasty, starting in Sichuan province.
Urbanization and entrepreneurial activity defined city life in Song times. Merchants could buy on
credit without having cash in their pockets.

The printing press and moveable type invented during Song provided the prototype for Guttenberg's
moveable type enhancement. Guttenberg's moveable type played an important role in spreading
religious ideas across Europe. This was instrumental in the development of the nation-state across
religious lines in Europe.

Finally a seismograph created during the Han dynasty provided advance warnings of an earthquake. A
device contained a dragon's mouth with a ball inside. When the earth shook, the ball would roll
out to the direction of the earthquake's epicenter.



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muyongshi -

This is a freakin' hard question. They had all had such a large impact but in many different ways.
Of course you could argue that gunpowder wouldn't have had such a large impact with out the
compass because then they wouldn't know where to go to kill people. But the boat wouldn't have
existed without the instruction manual on paper

Okay so I'm being fasictios (spelling) but I will have to really think about this one. My gut
instinct is gunpowder due to literal physical impact that was used up until nukes and oh wait we
still use it. So I guess the impact I am looking at is the human factor.... I'll vote after some
more thought...










Senzhi -

Looking at the title of this post, I can't help but say: gunpowder

More seriously, I believe the abacus (as we know today) was also a Chinese invention, which helped
improve trade.










chenpv -

All six inventions are unarguably among the most outstanding achievements in human history for
having enhanced our understandings of some underlying natural/social laws as well as our abilities
in governing this world. In this perspective, any one of the inventions listed above deserves no
more, or less, historical significance than the others.

However, I gave my final vote to paper. It doesn't mean that I favored knowledge propagation over
other findings, but simply because, when considering 'the most profound impact on the development
of the modern world', I personally think paper today has already transcended the primitive
application as a medium for knowledge propagation. Unlike other inventions, which acted as
specific solutions to distinct problems, paper and paper-making brought people to a more primary
idea of economy and efficiency, in not only information carrying but also compartmentalization of
different matters. Therefore, in today's world, 'paper', which possibly gave rise to the concepts
like 'membrane', 'layer' and so on, is not exclusively found to be made from wood or grass, or
used in printing, but has gained applications in other areas, such as paper money, package,
surface protector etc.










CheukMo -

Paper, the mariners compass, and moveable type all had a substantial impact on world history.
However, gunpowder changed the world completely. For at least two centuries gunpowder and which
group or country had the best weapons using gunpowder defined which countries had the most power.
The many empires that ruled most of the world in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries and the first
half of the 20th century was very much defined by who had the best weapons that used gunpowder.

卓武










ChouDoufu -

My vote goes to the movable-type press. It's invention led directly to the education of everyone
alive today. Before movable type, the masses were unable to afford a book, let alone read it. With
it, everyone with opportunity and an inkling can learn as much (or as little) as they want. I'd
also like to add that basically, the entire corpus of human knowledge was made possible by movable
type. Is that really less significant than another way to kill people?

Compass is second. Try flying on a plane, using a gps device or doing much of anything without one.

Paper money: every culture had something that worked as a unit of exchange. While extremely
useful, it is not anywhere as world changing as movable type. Paper money, in my opinion, didn't
really become useful until it stopped being tied to commodities like gold and silver.

Paper: useful, but there were alternatives, like papyrus in the Middle East. SIlk was used quite
extensively, in China, too.

Gunpowder goes last for the effect it has had in killing people and destroying cultures. I have
trouble naming anything good that has come from gunpowder.










muyongshi -



Quote:

Gunpowder goes last for the effect it has had in killing people and destroying cultures. I have
trouble naming anything good that has come from gunpowder.

Whether it was a good impact or not there is no denying the massive impact it did have.

I have to agree with Cheuk Mo on this that it literally did change the face of the world and so my
vote goes there but with a very very close second to paper, and then the compass, and then the
printing press. I think the credit card/paper money type of idea was already circulating and would
have found a way whether the Chinese invented it or not so that is very low on my list.










Lugubert -

I voted paper. Movable type and the printing press are out in my book, because the way I
understand history, the methods didn't spread from China but were independently invented in Europe.










muyongshi -



Quote:

I voted paper. Movable type and the printing press are out in my book, because the way I
understand history, the methods didn't spread from China but were independently invented in Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Egyptians create their own form of paper as well? I thought
paper was also one of those developed independently as well in Europe.

Aside from that I would have to agree. They did good at inventing them earlier than others but
failed to gain the usage over the world.










zozzen -

among the best known companies of paper, gunpowder, compass and printing machine how many of them
are chinese? (hmmm i know most of them should be manufactured in china) :p












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Chinese Character - book titles -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
book titles
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82riceballs -

i'm wondering how book titles are "written" in Chinese. in English, u would underline
（底線）or italicize （斜體）them.

eg:
That book is called Treasure Island.

or

That book is called Treasure Island.


is there any specific way in chinese that one would do that?



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yonglin -

with 《 》

e.g., 《红楼梦》是一部中国古典长篇小说。










Xiao Kui -

Sometimes book titles are put in special parentheses like this:
《金银岛》 or regular parentheses

By the way, does anyone know how to input those Chinese book title parentheses? The above example
is cut and paste - I only know how to input this cheap substitute:
<<宝岛>>










889 -

Are you using Windows?

If so, then start the Chinese (PRC) IME and head for the button on the language bar with a period
and a comma, then click it till it shows a Chinese-style period and comma. That sets input to
Chinese-style punction. Type "<" and ">" and you'll get　《　》.










pazu -

There was another punctuation marks for displaying names of books, I remember I was taught this
way when I was a kid but this style seems to be obsolete now.

﹏﹏

It's used like underline, but I guess it's not as easy as the 《 》 for printing purpose. Check
this page out also:

http://tinyurl.com/2necgr










Lu -



Quote:

﹏﹏

I've seen that a lot, but only in reprints of old books, as in, ancient classical Chinese books
that get re-set and reprinted. The books that also underline (or rather sideline, as they are
usually printed up-down right-left) all proper names in the text: ___.










Shadowdh -

Also in English you can use quotation marks... "Treasure Island" for example...










yonglin -



Quote:

Also in English you can use quotation marks... "Treasure Island" for example...

Actually, I was taught that quotation marks should be used for parts of works, such as journal
articles, book chapters or parts of anthologies, whilst italics/underline is used for names of
works. This might depend on the particular referencing system you're adhering to though.










muyongshi -

Yeah, it is not an appropriate usage. It needs to be underlined but due to a decline in the
quality of our general education system more and more people just freely write whatever they feel
like writing.

Just like in Chinese the only appropriate way (I mean modern usage) is to use 《》










82riceballs -



Quote:

Actually, I was taught that quotation marks should be used for parts of works, such as journal
articles, book chapters or parts of anthologies, whilst italics/underline is used for names of
works. This might depend on the particular referencing system you're adhering to though.

WOW! You sure know your grammar!

Anyways, thanks for all the input, guys! 謝謝大家！《 》












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HSK Exam - 2008 HSK -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
2008 HSK
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outcast -

I have tried but have been unable to find any more specific info. about the exam change for
elementary-intermediate. I've also tried emailing them, but the address provided on the HSK
website doesn't work.


Has anyone had any better luck?



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knight778 -

check this email address : tianqy@tsinghua.org.cn

i am sure that it's only a matter of time for u to get a reply from them...just stay patient!

if it doesnt work unexpectedly, Call this number: （010）82303672 82303962

Wish u good luck in HSK, and i am willing to answer any chinese language problem u met...










outcast -

Thanks.










kdavid -

When (if ) you get a response would you mind sharing it with the rest of us? I'm aiming to take
the elementary-intermediate exam spring of '08 and am curious about the new format of the test as
well.

Thanks!










outcast -

I send an email about a week ago and have gotten nothing back.










andersh82 -

I was in a test group who tried the new test last weekend. In beforehand, I was just told that I
could do the HSK for free, and didn't expect it to be different from before. But it was...

I was gonna write about the differences here, but as I saw this link, I thought I could spare me
the 麻烦...
http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archi...on-the-new-hsk










muyongshi -

Along the same lines...

Does anyone know if there are practice books out yet for the new format of the tests (intermediate
and advanced) and if not when do you think that they will be forthcoming?










roddy -

I don't think so. However, they are testing them at the moment and if you get in touch either with
the HSK office or your local HSK testing center you might be able to wrangle your way onto one of
the trial sittings. I'm doing one this Friday, will let you know what I reckon. I'm pretty sure
heifeng has done a write up on the one she took.










outcast -

Here's another question, how do they grade the speaking and writing parts? What do they look for?










muyongshi -

Roddy the post by heifeng that you referred to (in case anyone else is interested) is here post
#98. Definitely worth a look.

It will be interesting though to see how quickly they are able to get books in the new format out
(if it does happen due to the discussion of hanban)...












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Chinese Speaking - Help : search Manual "Directions of use" in English of Besta CD-800 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Help : search Manual "Directions of use" in English of Besta CD-800
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Phanatic -

Good morning,

I have just bought a Besta CD-800 (Chinese-English electronic dictionary ...) in Beijing to learn
Chinese, but I only have the manual in chinese.
Have you got a booklet "directions of use" in English (to download)
because I can't read chinese characters ?

Thank you for your help.

Best Regards



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madizi -

On the other hand, it is a good way to practice your Chinese. Anyway, I think Besta is a good
choice!












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Speak Chinese - How to get Integrated Chinese dialogues in simplified? -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
How to get Integrated Chinese dialogues in simplified?
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Friday -

I have purchased Integrated Chinese textbooks, workbooks, and character books for Level 1, Part 1
and Level 1, Part 2 (six books total), all of which I have used for the past year. The textbook
and workbook are traditional character editions.

After my recent trip to China, I realized that learning the traditional characters in parallel to
simplified only created confusion between myself and those with whom I tried to communicate, so I
am switching to learning simplified exclusively.

I see many IC resources are on the Web, but I can't find vocab lists and dialogues. Do I need to
purchase a new textbook and workbook to get the dialogues and vocabulary lists and exercises in
simplified form, or is there some less expensive, legal way to obtain this information, such as on
CD, via download, or through some account?



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thph2006 -

Yellowbridge has the IC vocab lists in their on-line flashcard tool here:
http://www.yellowbridge.com/language/flashcards.html

ZDT has vocab lists for all of the IC chapters here:
http://zdt.sourceforge.net/main/wordlist_index/












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Learning Mandarin - Mao font -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Mao font
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zhwj -

You can download a font made out of Mao's handwriting here. It's a beta version (whatever that
means), and the individual characters are drawn from various poem manuscripts and dedicatory
inscriptions he made.

That page has this image of the names of major Internet portals written in Mao's handwriting:

20070822105305c6d85.gif

The 百 caught my eye and I was able to identify it as coming from 百花齐放. Any idea where
the other characters are taken from? (helpful inscription list here)



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Learn Chinese - Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1 - Page 7 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1
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helvetus -

Hello Herr Petersen, Thank you for your very good posts.
Are you sure that it is useful to study Hanzis with « remembering the Kanjis » as RTH is still
not available?



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HerrPetersen -

No, I would discourage anyone who plans to learn Hanzi with "Remembering the Kanji". There are
just too many adjustments to make. What I meant to recommend was to give "Remembering the Hanzi" a
try, once it is out.
Or already download the free sample (http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/...0Hanzi%201.htm) and
then continue when the whole book is available










helvetus -

Thanks HerrPetersen, I will follow your advice.
Let's just hope that " Remembering the hanzi" will be soon published!










m.ellison -

Remember that Heisig developed his method for Japanese, which does not have any easy connection
between character and pronunciation, and a given kanji has many different and unrelated
pronunciations. Essentially, when the Japanese took over the Chinese writing system, they assigned
each kanji to (a) the same kanji in any words that were taken over from Chinese and (b) any
Japanese words of vaguely similar meaning that were looking for something to denote them.

None of that applies to Chinese, so it would make a bit more sense to learn the pronunciation with
the 字, but perhaps it is still easier to follow Heisig's meaning-first approach.

What I need as well is something like Kennedy's approach to learning pronunciation across
dialects, but that is another topic...










AJBryant -

On the various Japanese fora I inhabit, I'm known as a great hater of the Heisig "method."

The total divorcing of "reading" from "writing" is, I feel, a drastic mistake. I've actually been
known to respond to the question "what do you think of the Heisig method?" with "Heisig is the
devil."


Tony










JimmySeal -

Very constructive. Thank you.[/sarcasm]










wushijiao -



Quote:

Heisig is the devil

Why? When I first started learning Chinese, I made up little, silly stories to help me remember
the characters. That seems to be what Heisg has done, and it seems to work for a lot of people.

What is wrong with divoricing reading from writing? I don't get what you mean. As long as you can
1) speak in Putonghua, 2) know the corresponding pinyin, and can 3) recognize characters that pop
up on you computer, then you can write! The hardest part is step 3 for most foreign learners. And
Heisig's books may help people get through that rough spot. Methods like the one that Heisig has
created may not work for everyone, but they certainly work for some learners.










Zhang -

I remember about a year ago coming across the "Remembering the Kanji" book somewhere on the
internet, downloading the demo version and basically coming away thinking "wow this is great...but
such a shame there is no version for Chinese".

Does anyone have any idea exactly when this Chinese (Simplified) version will come out? I remember
reading somewhere about November, does anyone have any more specific info? I am currently studying
in Shanghai, my Chinese is pretty advanced in terms of speaking, listening and reading, I can
write on computer using pinyin fine but when it comes to writing by hand......

Im desperate to get my hands on this book as soon as it comes out, anyone have any idea if it will
be available in Shanghai / best way to order it?










m.ellison -

"late winter": Heisig










helvetus -

Late winter?? Does it mean that the book won't be published before February-March 2008?












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Chinese Online Class - Budgeting/finances -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Budgeting/finances
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victoria.m -

Could anyone give me an indication of how much they budgeted/week (or month) while in Beijing or
what they're thinking of using?? Thx



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Akima916 -

I read in "Living abroad in China" byStuart & Barbara Strother:
"The cost for one year undergraduate study at Beidais a minimum of $6,000. Tuition is about
$3,000. If you live on campus, your dorm room (If you can get one) will rent for about $1,200.
You'll shell out another $1,200 for the cafeteria meals (if you cansurvive for a year eating
Chinese school lunches). Realistically, you'l need a few thousand more for traveling and for the
psychological benefits of having a Western meal once in a while, not to mention all the karaokes
and discos your classmates will drag you too."

"In deciding on how much money you need to live we suggest no less than 3,000 元 a month (around
$350) for a single person, which will get you a bare bones existance if you don't have to pay for
housing."



Hope this helped!










shanghaikai -

Without housing, I'd also recommend 3000 RMB/month for a fairly minimal but passable existence
according to most Westerners. If you live on campus and eat all your meals at the campus cafeteria
(anything from ~3-10 RMB/meal) or local street eateries, you can definitely survive on 1000
RMB/month (again, not including housing costs). That's how the locals do it, assuming they're
lucky enough to have 1000 RMB/month in the first place.

6000 RMB/month should be decently comfortable unless you really like shopping (and not in the
fake/cheap markets). This should allow you some reasonable travel (as long as you're not staying
in anything super fancy, are willing to take trains, and etc.), plenty of nightlife (even less if
you're a girl and can get other people to buy you drinks), good meals every so often, decent
balance between metros and taxis, etc.












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Learning Mandarin - Turning down drink without causing loss of face? -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Turning down drink without causing loss of face?
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Page 1 of 3 1 23 >






Friday -

At various dinner parties, over the course of my recent trip to China, I was offered wine. As a
nephalist, I turned them down, toasting with peach juice. It occurred to me at the time that it
was possible I was causing them offense, but no one said anything. This notion was further
reinforced in a Beijing film I watched only today, in which a host became very upset at their
guest's refusal, exclaiming that his face had "fallen to the floor." There were other native
teetotalers present at some of the parties I attended, but they were close friends of the host.
How can I turn down drink without causing loss of face to the host?



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Rincewind -

I don't have an answer to this but I have a related question. How do you get the drink changed to
something more palatable. I have no problem with baijiu or wine or almost any other drink, but I
can't stand beer. Everything else is OK; however, beer is usually bought for you without even
asking for it. How do you change the drink without upsetting the host?










semantic nuance -

Friday,

When people cannot take truth nicely, how about telling them a white lie? You can tell them that
you are allergical to alcohol, which will make you itchy all over and feel sick. You may ask them
if you can drink some other soft drinks instead?

Hope it helps!










simonlaing -

Hi Friday,

This is a good question which many people may have different takes on. First it helps if you are
female in refusing alcohol as there are double standards.

Second drinking with the Boss can help. If you keep up with them moderately you will stay in their
good graces. When I asked my Masters business students who were about to do a year's Study in an
Italian MNE what I should work on for doing CHinese business they said learn to drink, and to
drink a lot. I have had friend who worked for government agencies and schools who have recieved
bonuses and raises for drinking their bosses literally under the table.

1 Tactics should be split into 2 parts one if you don't want to drink at all. (This is highly
unlikely and somewhat frowned upon)

2. Tactics for minimizing the amount that you drink.

For 1, you can claim that you are allergic to alochol. This works with vegetarians and meat most
of the time.
You can feign that you have a cold and have been taking some strong medicine and can't have the
drug interaction.
You can try and claim that your company does not allow you accept alcoholic gifts, though food is
ok. Or has some other policy on drinking

2. Minimizing drinking.
The best way is to team up with someone and constantly have group toasts . If you stand up and
point at someone they have to toast with you. Don't let them get you one person with people around
the table toasting you.
You can pretend to drink and spill some or just wet your lips.
When they are not looking pour some into your side bowl. or plate if you can.
Refuse to drink bottoms up, that it is not the western way at the restaurant.
Try to be talking with someone all the time, if you're talking it is harder to ask you to drink.
Figure out who is out to get you, or who is the ring leader and drink them under the table first
then the others won't hassle you as much. .

If you're out to drink them under it is ok to go out to the bathroom and puke a bit to help you
continue drinking.
Try to drink only expensive Baijiu at least 150 RMB as the other stuff will get your sick.

These are just a few of the tactics, I am sure others can speak of more.
Some like baijiu shots are easier to pour into the bowl or plate with out too much notice.

At weddings it is traditional for the Groom and Bride to toast all the guests, (though it is
usually done table by table with 10-20 tables it is still a feat). There are also drinking
situations in the ceremony performance. The best man carries the fake "baijiu" so the pair can
last the evening. Even with this weaker baijiu I have seen many a tipsy/puking bride. So count
yourself lucky it isn't a wedding

Have fun,
Simon










johnd -

I don't think you should worry about causing offence. They might think you are a wet blanket, or
not want to go out with you again, but I don't think they will take real offence. Even though you
are a guest in another culture, you should still be true to yourself and explain your reasons.
Maybe they'll respect you in the morning when they think to themselves "wow, that guy managed to
resist us".

They will keep on pushing you to drink, and you just keep on refusing - it's all part of the game
and the banter. If you watch the other drinkers, most of the time they're arguing about who's to
drink what and how much. So you can try to stay jovial, and join their banter. Maybe you can
deflect them by suggesting a forfeit: "I'll eat one of these super-hot chillies for every glass
you drink". Then you can over-act your spicy pain and everyone will have a laugh together. Because
that's the point of the drinking: to have a laugh and break down the social barriers.

All this is theory though - I never managed to resit without being a boring sod!










mr.stinky -

just tell the truth; you don't drink. if they have a problem with that, too bad. i think the
'losing face' problem is an overblown western movie 'inscrutable oriental' stereotype, at
least in this case. anyone that takes such offense that they resort to bullying you (beyond
simple peer pressure; "c'mon have a drink") to force you to drink, is neither a friend nor
a good host, regardless of the culture.

anyways, to avoid 'misunderstandings,' tell your friends you don't drink when you accept
an invitation, and again when you meet before entering the bar/ktv/restaurant. if invited
to someone's home, quietly tell the host before any drinks are served.

of course, if you believe the situation demands you lie, you can say either your religeon
forbids alcohol, or you're taking medication that cannot mix with likker.

full disclosure: although not a heavy drinker, i've yet to decline a drink. however, it did
take some encouragement to suck the flaming bacardi through a straw.










gougou -



Quote:

you can say either your religeon forbids alcohol

That might or might not work. I was translating for a guy from Dubai once; being a Muslim, he
declined to drink any alcohol. When I told the Chinese that he couldn't drink alcohol because of
his religion, they served red wine and told him that it was just grape juice... Luckily, he was
suspicious enough to consult me first!










imron -



Quote:

anyone that takes such offense that they resort to bullying you (beyond
simple peer pressure; "c'mon have a drink") to force you to drink, is neither a friend nor
a good host

While by and large I agree with this statement, sometimes you might be having dinner with people
who are neither good friends, or good hosts, but at the same time you have to be there and lying,
getting angry or walking out isn't an option.

I don't really drink much, in fact mostly not really at all, and on several occasions my continued
refusal to drink, or refusal to drink more than a small amount (even when refusing in a nice way),
has made things very awkward and uncomfortable (not to mention the fact it's meant that I've then
had to listen to countless lectures about the importance of Chinese drinking culture and how I
should 入乡随俗).

Anyway, if you speak Chinese, these are phrases I've found to be useful when refusing alcohol:

我滴酒不沾 - I don't don't drink any alcohol (not even one drop).

我以茶（饮料）代酒 - I'll use tea (softdrink) in place of alcohol.

只要感情有，喝啥都是酒 As long as there is feeling (between us), it doesn't matter what
we drink, it's the same as if we were drinking alcohol.

These three phrases, which I'll typically use in the order listed above and in reponse to
increasingly strong requests to have something alcoholic to drink, are usually enough to get you
out of most drinking situations in a nice and friendly manner, while still showing "respect" to
the host.










Yang Rui -

Agree with most of what's being said here. I think it's much easier to refuse to drink outright
than to just drink in small amounts. For me, the best excuse is the "feigning illness" excuse. You
could say you have "wei4bing4" (stomach condition) and demonstrate this even further by avoiding
spicy food. It's a bit of a stock excuse though, and they may see through it. But I generally find
that a lot of Chinese people are very sensitive about their health (verging on the hypochondriac)
and so anything relating to health should be a good excuse.

There are some cases where people will just persist and persist in trying to get you to drink -
they push so much that they get themselves into situations where they can only lose face. I think
this says a lot about their character - I would never trust anyone who did this in any other area
of life. They care nothing for your comfort, but only their own standing. Stand up to them!

Most people are fine though. Once, I was on the verge of being totally wasted on baijiu, and
refused my host's offer of another glass and he said "Ok, I respect you. You know when to stop."
That can be the start of a good relationship










skylee -

I agree with #6.

As to saying "我滴酒不沾" to the host, even I, who never think forcing anyone to drink makes
sense, would find it offensive/impolite. The tone is very abrupt and sounds like 我義正詞嚴.
I think a softer "我(完全)不喝酒的" or "我是(完全)不能喝酒的" are more acceptable.












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Speak Chinese - Dragon fruit -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Dragon fruit
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Myriam -





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adrianlondon -

There's some discussion here

http://www.twowests.co.uk/weblog/arc...gon_fruit.html










skylee -

火龍果

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%81%...BE%99%E6%9E%9C

http://images.google.com.hk/images?c...=1&sa=N&tab=wi










skylee -

not particularly.










cdn_in_bj -

It sure is a pretty fruit. As to liking it or not, I guess you could say that I am indifferent to
it - I'll eat it if it's on a fruit tart, but I won't go out and buy one.

Though I wonder what kind of nutritional value it has? Obviously, the low sweetness is a plus.

PS - where are you headed?










adrianlondon -

They're very expensive (the fruit, not Oakland) in the UK. I don't usually buy them, although if
they're reduced for any reason my boyfriend buys them and makes a fruit salad with them. And other
fruit. And cherry tomatoes.

Adding tomatoes to a fruit salad is a very Chinese thing.










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

Adding tomatoes to a fruit salad is a very Chinese thing.

Well it's also a fruit, isn't it?

Cherry/grape tomatoes are also much cheaper here than back home










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

The one I tasted was home grown, I remember I bought some in hk with watermelon and another kind
of melon but it didn't taste anything.

If this fruit isn't grown locally (I don't know if it is or not), then it could very well be that
what you got from the supermarket wasn't ripe when it was harvested.

I can say that the dragonfruit I've had here (or anywhere else for that matter) didn't have much
taste either. A bit boring, but not offensive either.

By the way, now is the time to be buying peaches. Both the crispy and the soft and really juicy
kind (my favourite) are good now. And 5 yuan for 3 jing, you can't beat that!

I've also had some good watermelon lately as well.










imron -



Quote:

Adding tomatoes to a fruit salad is a very Chinese thing.

Mayonnaise is too.










horas -



Quote:


Quote:
Adding tomatoes to a fruit salad is a very Chinese thing.


Well it's also a fruit, isn't it?

*
Well, one can categorize tomatoes also as vegetables, doesn't it? Even potatoes.

A Chinese thing?
I remember dimly that the daoist philosophy is against eating tomatoes, haven't found out why. But
probably this needs a new thread.

*












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Learn Mandarin online - I Hate Hanzi - Page 7 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
I Hate Hanzi
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Page 7 of 8 First < 56 7 8 >






choisum -

To add my experiences.

I've been teaching myself to read and can now read some newspaper articles. So far I've relied on
rote memorization of characters and character combinations using flashcards.

It is more difficult now because as pointed out, there are diminishing returns and if you only see
a character a couple of times, it's easy to forget.

A couple of weeks ago I took on a private tutor and after the first lesson he told me to go off
and read on my own as there wasn't much he could teach me. This surprised me, as there are always
new characters and combinations to learn.

He did recommend going "backwards" and learn to write. Initially I opposed the idea as I felt it
was a retrograde step and it would slow down my attempts to learn reading.

Having thought about it and done some research I think he is right. I'm hoping to acquire the
knack that Chinese children acquire through disciplined study.

The outcome (if all goes well) will actually make it easier to learn more characters, making it
faster to push into the 3000-5000 range.

I'll post an update in a few months, if anyone thinks this might be interesting...



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nipponman -

The main thing to realize when learning hanzi is to not lose sight of the goal...the point is to
learn to read, not to evaluate the system. The system won't change so you might as well get used
to it. Practically, read, read, read. After your first 300 hanzi you should begin reading. You
won't recognize everything, but things will start to come together.










rezaf -

汉字帮我记住单词和单词的用法。汉字帮我自信地说话、写东西，不过因为�
��字阅读中文书和报纸太难了。i love hanzi and i think that they are all
beautiful(不过我更喜欢繁体字）,but it is very funny when 连中国人也 can not write a
chinese name without asking about the exact characters.










muppetwonder -

I'm coming into this thread a little late, but I wanted to throw in my $0.02, since I'm not sure
that anyone has brought this up in previous posts.

By way of background, I grew up in Canada, and attended Saturday morning Chinese school for a
number of years, abandoned Chinese learning for many years and am now, in my 30s, starting to pick
it up again.

The description in this thread of how non-native learners of Chinese acquire characters is
actually very different from how I was taught as a child (but alas did not learn well enough or
else my Chinese would be a lot better).

Here's what I learned: You should never memorize characters in isolation.

When we memory-practiced new vocabulary (生字）, we would always practice in two contexts: (1)
the entire word, and not the individual characters, and (2) the passage of text that the word is
used in.

Thus, we would never memory-practice 感情 as the characters 感 and 情 separately, as we would
learn the whole word itself. I suppose that over time, as we encountered words such as 感到，
感概， 感動, we would intuitively have learned the meaning of 感, from the context of the
passage of text we were reading, and at the same time have memorized how to write the character.
The important thing, from a pedagogical perspective, it seemed, was that we learned useful word
units.

I do agree though, that it's easy to forget how to write characters if you do not use it on a
regular basis, but I find that remember or being able to read characters is not that difficult,
again, because I learned in the context of words, rather than individual characters.










yelei_1981 -

I used to hate English When I was in college. But now I like it because I can use it to write and
read. So you always hate thing when it tortures you.










nipponman -

^ well said










Caidanbi -

I don't hate hanzi at all! Quite the opposite, I think they are really beautiful and fun to learn.
And yes, I would prefer to read everything in a beautiful script as opposed to something more
utilitarian - I am an artist, I want everything to be beautiful. But seriously, I don't think
hanzi are difficult or boring to learn. I really enjoy learning them.










shibole -

I only started seriously trying to learn Mandarin about 2 months ago, but I decided that I'd try
to learn everything (writing, reading, speaking, listening) at the same time even if one of those
was a huge bottleneck. (I'm learning on my mostly on my own.)

So far I think I've learned something like 200 characters and I'm only through lesson 3 in
Integrated Chinese. I'm going rather slow and I've slacked off for periods, but at least I can
actually actively recall and write all of the 200+ or so characters that I know

Part of the reason I'm going slow is because I'm still sort of trying to "learn how to learn." I
feel like I'm not good at learning languages in general and so I'm spending a certain amount of
time trying to correct that or otherwise become more efficient. Some things I'm noticing:
* Writing seems to be the major bottleneck. I feel like if I weren't determined to actually
learn to write everything I could learn to read much faster.
* I have trouble just learning words without trying to learn something about the meaning of the
individual characters in the words.
* The more I learn the more characters seem like little "square words" of a sort that are
composed of "roots." Once I know 木　羊　永　and can think of 樣 in terms of those
characters suddenly things don't seem insanely difficult. I still get a little discouraged when
I encounter something that just seems totally unique and one-off, but overall seeing patterns
makes things easier.
* I'm still sort of wondering how much effort it makes sense to put into learning parts of
characters. For example, if I have the new character 衛 does it make sense to spend time
learning 韋 and 行 even if I have no real "context" or use for those individual characters?
* On another note I wonder how useful it is to try to learn additional words just because
they're composed of characters that I already know. For example, I know 天, 安, and 門, so it
seems natural to put 天安門 in my flashcard system to help give those characters more
context. Later perhaps I learn 西 and wanting more context for it I add 西安 to the list.
Those examples are proper nouns though so maybe they're less useful?
* The whole "RTK" thing makes sense but I'm a bit disappointed at how the method doesn't really
follow textbooks and learning characters in context. I wonder how hard it would be to look up
characters in such a book as needed for a class or textbook lesson.
I am finding Anki SRS pretty helpful. I use the built-in Mandarin model that forces you do do
"production" (writing) before recognition. Lately I've been trying to add at least 5 words to it
per day, sticking mostly to the vocab in the textbook, and hope to increase that at some point.

Anyway just some random thoughts. I don't really hate hanzi even though they don't seem like the
most efficient form of writing, especially when it comes to learning efficiency. For Chinese they
are probably pretty appropriate though simply due to the large number of homophones. It's kind of
interesting to be able to write "he" and "she" without being able to specifically say "he" or "she"










yfx416 -

Chinese is very simple.
Now i am studying french. I think it is more difficult than Chinise










forrest19860923 -

amigo ,i complete disagree with you .i am chinese ,so i am using hanzi almost everyday .i think
every language is unique ,every language has stupid part and beautiful part .you feel bad about
hanzi ,i guess that is because you are so good about it .tell you what ,sometimes i feel learning
english is the most diffcult thing in the world and i also have fun in it . friend ,this is
language ,you cannot learn it in one day .be patience ,and if that is possible ,come to china .you
can find a job here .you can feel the amazing chinese culture .
good luck for you hanzi .try harder .[
my email :forrest19860923@tom.com












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Chinese Tutor - Learning Chinese Books -

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Learning Chinese Books
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aafrophone -

are there any good books that you recommend for learning chinese? (i would prefer to learn
traditional characters as opposed to simplified, but i'm not very picky)

i borrowed a book "integrated chinese" (tao-chung yao, yuehua liu) and its... "ok" but i'd prefer
to find other (better) books to learn from. your help is appreciated.



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G - Steven -

Hi aafrophone,

Could you be more specific about what level of textbook you are looking for? I mean, are you a
beginner, or have you gone past the basic order-a-drink&ask-for-directions stuff?










aafrophone -

i mean beginner, b/c i don't think i'm learning well from this book.










atitarev -

"Integrated Chinese" is a good textbook. I used New Practical Chinese Reader, not much different,
I think. If you can't cope, join a Chinese class or get help from a tutor.

Apart from textbooks, you need two-way dictionaries and learn how to use them to look up words and
characters, you need audio for your textbooks.

You can also ask things you don't understand on this forum or ask native speakers in your town.










Jack119 -

I think Practical Chinese is also a good one.












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Free Chinese Lesson - what does this mean? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
what does this mean?
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chinese1234 -

what does this mean?






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ChinsonTan -

i think there must be something in the left hand side missing.
and A happiness is in the right hand side.










icesail -

haha....

i am a chinese , but i did not met this word before!











chinlearner83 -

Looks kinda like 瓅 and 擽.










trien27 -

chinlearner83 is correct: It is the Japanese simplification of Kanji character 瓅. The learner
either has a bad handwriting problem or it's because the writer is left-handed.










cintiaghimel -

I`m a beginner, but I guess I can differ right from wrong when it comes to writing characters
properly and I`d say, IMHO, that it looks like something`s wrong with it. Correct me if I`m wrong,
though.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

It is the Japanese simplification of Kanji character 瓅.

Simplified or not, I don't think this character exists in (modern) Japanese.












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Chinese Pinyin - Guide to Chinese -

> Wikis > Guide to Chinese
Guide to Chinese
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#1



Guide to Chinese




New articles can be created via the "Wikis" dropdown in the header.

See Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in Chinese-Forums for some guidelines on formatting the
articles.


====================================================================================================





Contributors: gato, roddy

Created by roddy, 12th July 2007 at 09:44 PM
Last edited by gato, 5th October 2007 at 05:21 PM
5 Comments , 9021 Views


Discussion







Articles in Guide to Chinese
There are 18 articles in Guide to Chinese.


A


* A New Chinese Course


B


* Best of Chinese Study Tools
* Books
* Buying Books In China


C


* Chinese Solutions for Handheld devices
* Classical Chinese for Modern Usage
* Conversational Chinese 301


D


* Dictionaries


G


* Getting to Know China: A Kaleidoscope of Chinese Culture
* Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in Chinese-Forums
* Guide to Chinese


I


* Input Methods for Typing Characters and Pinyin


M


* Magazine and Newspapers


N


* New Approaches to Learning Chinese
* New Practical Chinese Reader


R


* Radicals


T


* Tones


U


* Useful Wordlists - Endearment, 好, 可, Onomatopoeias












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Free Chinese Lesson - Can someone work process this chinese phrase from this image? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Can someone work process this chinese phrase from this image?
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ahuacatlan -

Hi,
Can anyone type out the chinese characters from the image below so I can have them in a text form?

Thanks!



Also,
can anyone come up with a better translation of the english phrase? Or is the one in that image a
good one?



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muyongshi -

Sorry it is 3am here so it won't be long but here is the quicky

hua4 xue2 gan3 guan1 zhong1 xin1 gan3 zhi1 pin3 pai2 yan2 tao3 hui4

The words mean (not saying this is a good translation)
Chemistry Sensory Organ Center Sensation Brand Seminar










skylee -

恒源祥 - MoneII 化学感官中心感知品牌研讨会










muyongshi -

Ha ha it said characters didn't it.....

That's why you don't try to help people out at 3 in the morning. I totally read that wrong. Sorry!










ahuacatlan -

thank you both!












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Chinese Online Class - Help with Translating Philosophy Verses Needed -

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insight -

Hi, all!
I came accross these two verses in Chinese. Could anybody help me to translate it?



1) 善似青松惡似花，看看眼前不如它；有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花.

2) 不怕念起，只怕覺遲

These two verses appear in Chinese philsophy books.


Thanks in advance,

Michelle



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helenlee -

1, it means that at the first sight, the flower is nicer than the pinetree. when the frost is
coming,the flower is withered but the pinetree is standing there still. now in Buddhism,they
compare good and bad in one's nature to pinetree and flower.










insight -

Thanks Helen,

But you still haven't told me how to translate 有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花?

And 不怕念起，只怕覺遲 . Does it mean " do not be afraid of the arousal of thoughts but
the late perception"? But I think this translation does not sound good.

Have you got a better suggestion?

Rgds,
Michelle










gougou -



Quote:

But you still haven't told me how to translate 有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花?

Actually, she did. The part before the semicolon describes how the pine tree compares to the
flower on first sight, while the part after the semicolon describes what happens once it freezes.










insight -

And how about the second one?

不怕念起 只怕覺遲?


This one is tough to translate.


ITD,

Michelle










gato -



Quote:

不怕念起 只怕覺遲

How about "Be not afraid of perceiving, only afraid of perceiving too late"?

Not entirely sure that 念起 is "perceiving". It could also mean "opening one's perception" or
"remembering."

See http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/Ge...yString=%A9%C0
(1)惦記、想念。如：思念、掛念。唐˙白居易˙傷遠行賦：惟母念子之心　，
心可測而可量。
(2)憶念。佛教指將心清楚放在對象上而不忘失。如：念佛、念施。大安般守�
��經˙卷下：念出入息。










insight -

Hello, Gato!

Thanks a lot for the suggestion!




Quote:

How about "Be not afraid of perceiving, only afraid of perceiving too late"?

As regarding to 念起, I think you should not separate 念 and 起. Since 念起means every
emergence of thought ( in Spanish : surgimiento de pensamiento).

So, what do you think if we make it like this:

Be not afraid of the thoughts, only afraid of perceiving too late


Sincerely yours ,

Michelle










studentyoung -



Quote:

1) 善似青松惡似花，看看眼前不如它；有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花.

Goodness is a pine tree and evil is a flower.
A flower pleases you more than a tree.
But once it freezes,
the flower will fade while the tree still green.



Quote:

2) 不怕念起，只怕覺遲

The matter is not what comes to your mind but whether it comes too late.

Thanks!










insight -



Quote:

Goodness is a pine tree and evil is a flower.
A flower pleases you more than a tree.
But once it freezes,
the flower will fade while the tree still green

This is a nice translation. But how about :

Wholesomeness is like a pine,
unwholesomeness is like a flower.
At first sight, the pinetree is not compared to the flower;
but once the frost heats them,
the pinetree remains and not the flower.

But as regarding to the second verse:

[quote]The matter is not what comes to your mind but whether it comes too late/QUOTE]


I think in the verse, it does not mention matter. What do you think?


Michelle










HashiriKata -



Quote:

不怕念起 只怕覺遲

Please stand back and let me have the last words on this :
Don't be afraid of having bad thoughts, do be afraid of not recognizing them soon enough!












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